The Stool With No Charge

The Stool With No Charge

by Norman Renshaw

Transcribed from the original recording; may contain errors.

I think you two young fellows can come and help me for a minute. Yeah, that’s right. Travis, you come and stand over here. And you pick up the stool for me over there. Your name is? Brett. You go over there, Brett, with that stool. Just not too far away. That’s right. Good. Now, we’re not here. We’re there. And there is the workshop in Nazareth. And I’m Father Joseph. I haven’t got my beard on tonight, but I’m Father Joseph. Abba Joseph. And so you are Jesus. About that size. And you’re a neighbour, and you can get off that stool because it’s broken.

That’s why you brought it here. Thanks for the warning, he says. Well, he broke it. Well, somebody in his house broke it. He’s a neighbour fellow. And he brings the stool to us. OK, come right on into the workshop. And he says to us, the stool is broken. Well, you can see that, can’t you? I mean, it doesn’t even sit straight.

And I suppose you want it mended, do you? Yeah. And you brought it to us because we’re the best carpenter shop in Nazareth. Well, that’s right, isn’t it? Yeah. Sure thing. In fact, we’re the only carpenter shop in Nazareth, aren’t we?

Right. Now, you want us to make that whole, do you? You want us to make it fit again so you can sit on it straight. All right. Well, you just hold it a minute, Jesus. That’s right, you hold it. Why should I hold it? I’m the boss round here. Well, that’s an interesting break you’ve got in it, isn’t it? Somebody sit on it too heavily or half a dozen people sit on it? Or were the kids playing about with it? Yeah. Well, I don’t know.

I think we could do it. And it’s no good you asking me how, because if I told you’d be the carpenter, wouldn’t you? I tell you what, you come back next week, and that stool will be so good, you won’t even know it’s ever been broken. Okay? You want to know how much it’s going to be? Well, you wait and find out. We’ll argue about that when you come again. So off you go home, and we’ll do it. Won’t we, lad? Mm-hmm. Yeah. How? Well, hammer it. Hammer it? Yeah. Well, hammer it won’t be any good. Gee, make it worse if you hammer it. Now, look here. You don’t know much about carpentry yet, do you? No. But I’m an old hand. And I’ll tell you how we’re going to do it. See, I’ve thought it all out up here already while that old neighbour fellow was in here. I could see exactly, and I’ll tell you. And in the next two or three days, we’ll do it. See? All we’ve got to do is, once a bit of work down here, we can join that in nicely. And yes, we can make a good job of that. Anyway, when that fellow comes back, he’ll be staggered, won’t he? Yeah. You help me with it?

Yeah. Great. All right. Next two or three days, that’s one of our jobs, and we’ll get it done. And now, lo and behold, after two or three days, we have got it done. Well, doesn’t that look great? There it is. Four square, and anybody can sit on it. Won’t you be surprised? I tell you what, when he comes back, we’ll let him sit on it, shall we? Yeah. Before we charge him.

Right. Oh, you know, I think it’s time he’s coming. Oh, here we come. Well, hello. Well, glad to meet you. Shalom, and all that stuff. Well, what do you think of it? I don’t know. You don’t know? Don’t you think that’s better than it? There you go. Beautiful. Can you see the joins? No. I’m just looking at it. It’s as good as new, isn’t it? Eh? Now, what shall we say? Fifteen shekels? I don’t have any money.

Hasn’t got any money! How about that? Eh? They’re all the same, aren’t they? Yeah. How are we going to prosper if you never pay us? Shall we let him take it? Yes. Pay us next week? Yeah. Well, there you are. You take it and enjoy it. And we’re glad to see you. Glad to have made it good for you. All right. Great. Well, now, you can go and sit down as well, if you like. Okay. That’s how Jesus learnt something very important. Just as simple as that. I mean, anybody can mend furniture. If they know how. And if they’ve got it in their brain. If they can see it before they mend it. Of course, that’s the way you make furniture, isn’t it? You’ve got to be able to see it. If you want to make a stool, you can’t make a stool if you don’t know what a stool is. You’ve got to be able to picture it. And then, after you’ve thought it, then if you know how to do it, you can make it. And one day, Jesus seen so many broken people. That’s worse than being a broken piece of furniture, isn’t it? A broken person. Some people broken because their arms were broken. Or their leg. Some people broken because they got leprosy.

Some people broken because they couldn’t see. Some people couldn’t hear. And He said, something ought to be done about it. And then He remembered that He had learned how to make and remake furniture from his earthly dad. And He turned to His heavenly dad and said, could we be in the remaking business of people? And His heavenly dad said, sure thing. Because we made them first of all, and we can remake them. So when at last, after Jesus had finished with being a carpenter, He started to be a preacher, He talked only about one thing. God’s program. What God wanted in His world. And God wanted everybody to be in His family. And coming into His family, He wanted them to be well. And He wanted them to have what they needed. And He wanted to bless them. So Jesus went about telling people that. We called it the kingdom. God’s kingdom. And He said, it’s here, right now. And all you’ve got to do is to believe it. And do you know, people started saying to Him, because of what He preached, will you heal me?

Now Jesus said, I can only say the things that my Father says. I’m His echo. I hear Him say it, and then I say it. And He also said, I can only do the things that I see my Father doing. So that’s how He did the preaching. Listening in to His Father. And that’s how He did the healing. Watching the way His Father healed. Just as back in the workshop, He’d had the same experience when He was a boy, learning from His earthly father how to make and remake furniture. And that gives us a clue to how He’s doing it here tonight. Because Jesus is exactly the same here as He was there. With this one exception, He doesn’t live anymore in an earth suit. So He can be everywhere at any time. Isn’t that fabulous? Because that means He is here tonight. And I know it for two reasons.

I know it for two reasons. One is, He said to me years ago, Norman, I’ll live with you if you’ll live with me. And I said, fine, I’m on. So He’s been living with me ever since, and I’ve been living with Him. So when I walk in, He walks in. Because He’s living in me. And that’s true of everybody here. And we’ve got a lot of people here tonight who agreed to that a long time ago or a short time ago, it doesn’t matter how long ago. Every one of them who walked in tonight, Jesus walked in with them. Wow, isn’t that marvelous? Then He also said, I’ll always be with you. Go into all the world, and I’ll always be with you. Provided you are doing my work. And He also said, if two or three of you, two or three of them, just enough in that front row there, are gathered together in my name, I’ll be there. So that’s at least three ways I know it. I said two, but that’s at least three. He is here. And if He weren’t here, we might as well go and have the cookies and the things now. Well, it’s true, isn’t it? I can’t heal anybody. I’ve, you know, I have never met anybody who could heal anybody.

I’ve never met a doctor who can heal anybody. I know a lot of wonderful doctors. Some of them have been my closest friends. I’ve never heard them say that they healed anybody. It’s only people who say that the doctor healed them. The doctor would never say that. No surgeon would ever say that. He knows too much about the healing business. He knows he can’t do it. I’m in the healing business as a Christian and I know I can’t do it. And yet, people get healed. When was the last time you boys fell down and made a nasty mess on your knee? Of course, you wear long pants these days. I didn’t until I was about 13. My knees are still covered with scars. But… Every time I fell down, wallop, there it was. You know, once… They were making a new sidewalk near where I lived. And before they put the paving stones down, they stacked them all up about this height. And then some more further on. You know the idea? I don’t know if you ever see it like that over here. But there’s slabs of concrete. And they stack them up. And my mother said, now on your way to school, don’t you get on those slabs of concrete? So, of course, that’s exactly what I did do.

And I… and to get on them, I had to get… kneel up. Kneel up, get over, and get down the other side. Then you ran about 20 yards, and then you got another lot. I was too small to be able to jump up. So I knelt up. I was only about five and a half. And I knelt up and down the other side. Boy, I did that for about two weeks while these were waiting to be laid. Great farm. Oh, yes, great farm. But my poor knees.

My knees didn’t like it. Because every time I knelt up, I knelt into all kinds of things. And eventually, my knees were damaged. And so poison could get in. And I had two poisoned knees. Before they’d ever heard of penicillin, all I had was peroxide poured on. And it had to go on being poured on until it stopped fizzing. And then poultices. Hot poultices. Hot water wrung out in a flannel and put on. As hot as you dared have it. And just for fun, about once a day, a hot bread poultice. Which meant bread inside the poultice. So that it would keep the heat longer. Because that’s the only way you could get the poison out. And if my mother hadn’t been brave enough to do it, I would probably have had to have both my legs cut off above the knee. And that went on for about six weeks. I’ve still got the scars. But what a beautiful thing that they healed up. How could I ever have won a gold medal at school for money if I hadn’t got healing there? And where did it come? Well, it came partly because my mother looked after me so well and partly because she put the poultices on and partly because of the peroxide. But because inside everybody there is a built-in plan for healing.

Now, I needn’t have gone to that extent. I could have just said, what happened the last time you cut yourself? Well, it healed up, didn’t it? And if you kept it clean, those two pieces came together. If it was a bad cut, they took you off to the doctor and he stitched it up. But the stitches don’t heal it. The stitches just help it to heal. What heals it? Do you know there isn’t a medical man or woman in the world that knows? They just know it happens and then when it’s happened it stops. Isn’t that fantastic? It’s because inside everybody there is a healing program. And that goes right on, right on until you step out of your earth suit. Don’t forget that. It doesn’t stop when you’re 50 or 60 or 70 or 80. It’s always going on. Always wants to heal. So, Jesus knew about this because He knew that His heavenly Father had made people like that. And He knew that His heavenly Father loved people so much He wanted to make them better. Now, when somebody was in trouble Jesus spoke to His heavenly Father about it and said what can we do about this? Remember one day a man came to Jesus and Jesus said what do you want?

And the fellow said I want to be able to see again because he was blind. Now it was as if Jesus immediately said to His heavenly Father he’s a blind man. What do we do about this? Can we give him his sight back? And the heavenly Father said well of course we can. We made eyes, didn’t we? And all the marvelous mechanisms. Of course we can give him his sight back. So Jesus stretched out His hand and He gave him his sight. He saw His Father do it. So when a leper comes to Him He isn’t shocked by the leper. He looks at him and He says yes, you can be healed. Right, that showers a blessing, isn’t it? Good job we’re all in here. Oh, don’t worry about the noise. We can always turn the power up, can’t we, Will? And He said oh yes, your leprosy can be healed because Jesus saw him healed. Now, of course if Jesus were here tonight in an earth suit you might or you might not believe Him. If you lived in Nazareth you wouldn’t believe Him. And so He wouldn’t be able to do much for you if you didn’t believe it because He can’t do anything for you that you don’t believe. Now people don’t like that.

They like to put all the blame on Him or on God or on somebody else. But there’s no way out of that. In Nazareth they said well, this Jesus fella He’s only a carpenter. He can’t heal anybody and He hasn’t got any special relationship with God and do you know Jesus couldn’t do any mighty work in Nazareth because they didn’t believe. Oh, there were a few people who did believe and they got healed. Now how can I believe like that? Supposing I’m ill. Well, first of all I’ve got to want to be well. Now you may say well, of course I want to be well. Well, are you sure? Are you absolutely sure? That’s the first question Jesus asks. Do you really want to be well? Or are you enjoying your illness? Now you say of course I’m not enjoying my illness. Well, let’s ask Agnes Sanford. Agnes Sanford was one of the great teachers of healing.

You know, there’s a lovely little bit that they’ve got in the Swiss song of He’s got the whole world in His hands. He’s got the Donner und Blitzen in His hands. You know what the Donner und Blitzen is? The thunder and the lightning. And all the kids some from the floor. He’s got the Donner und Blitzen in His hands. That’s it. Well, anyhow, so we don’t mind the Donner und Blitzen, the thunder and the lightning. Agnes wasn’t ill at all until she was, what, about four. She just had a little illness. But she had to stay in bed. And her mother brought her her food on a tray. Oh, lovely it was. A little vase of flowers. And she sat up in bed. And she was the centre of attention in the family. Oh, boy! Do you know, deep down inside her, Agnes Sanford fell in love with being ill. Can you believe that? Because now she was important. Now she was number one in the family. Now she was the centre of attention. And she went on being ill for years.

Many, many years later, she saw her mother’s diary. And in the diary it said, when Agnes was about seven or eight, Agnes will never be well. She enjoys being ill too much. Now isn’t that incredible? Now if you’d say to Agnes, do you enjoy being ill? She’d say, oh, of course not. I want to be up and about. I hate it. We all say that. But it’s what we’re believing deep down inside that counts. And she had found that this was the number one way of getting attention.

A lot of illnesses like that. And until she wanted to find a proper place in the world without illness, she could never be better. You could pray for her forever. She’d never be healed. Because although Jesus could heal her, she didn’t want to be healed, thank you very much. And so the healing wouldn’t come. Now if you go right to the other end of life, there are a lot of people sometimes when they retire, that’s years and years away for some of you, but not so far for some of us, they retire, particularly men, and they’ve got nothing to do. Suddenly, without knowing it, they’ve got no purpose for living. And deep down inside them, that message gets established. And the message is passed on to their body. And their body is so loyal. It’ll say, you want to finish, do you? You want to leave this world? You’ve got no job now? Nobody’s interested in you? You’re not important anymore? Well, all right, we’ll look after that. And within 18 months, those people will be dead. Because they have brought unto themselves an illness. And nothing can cure them. Not even anything that anybody can pray, or any medical can do because they have chosen to come to the end of their earthly life.

Now, that’s shocking. That shocks you. Because those same people, if you said to them, you don’t want to be ill, do you? They’d say, of course not. Just before my father died, his wife, my stepmother, said to him, now, I do wish you would eat up. You want to get better, don’t you? And he said, oh, yes. But he didn’t. He was in his 91st year. He’d had a good long life. He decided to depart. Nothing could keep him here. Why should it? But he still said, of course, I want to get better. But deep down, he didn’t. So the first thing you have to ask, do I want to be well? Or am I in some way using my illness? When I had an illness for a long time, 20 years, an allergic condition, I think I’ve written about it in the book, I said, oh, I don’t want this illness. Oh, it’s a nuisance to me. Oh, I want to be healed. But deep down, I was using the illness. It was a splendid alibi. It always came at the time of the year when I was having very important examinations at school and college. Always came in the summertime, May, June and July. So this meant that I wasn’t really on my top form.

So if I didn’t pass the exam, I got a wonderful alibi. It was because I wasn’t well. So it was useful to have this illness sort of around. I never got cured from that until I said to God one day, I was 30. I was a minister. I believed in healing. I knew I got an allergic illness. I said to God, Abba, You know that I’ve got an allergic illness. He said, yes. I said, well, that’s something to do with my inside, my soul. Psychosomatic, they call it. Something to do with my psyche and my body. Yes, He said. Well, I said, the psyche part You know a lot about, don’t You? He said, yes. I said, if You told me what has caused it, what’s triggered it off, what’s started it, I’d really take that to heart and I’d do whatever You wanted me to do about it. So I promise You, if You will tell me what caused my illness, I’ll work on that because I don’t want this illness anymore. He said, really? I said, really? He said, do you really promise that if I tell you, you’ll act upon it, whatever it is? Now I realise I was getting in deep water now. You know, when He really is asking you if you really mean what you’re saying, you better watch it because if you don’t mean it, back off.

I said, yes, I do mean it. All right, He said, I’ll tell you, you act upon it. I said, thank You, that’s wonderful, amen. Amen. And then I went to get on with my work. I was in my study at the time. And do you know, in ten seconds He told me, I’d had the illness for twenty years. I couldn’t believe that He had told me anything. I thought it would take Him longer to look through His files. I mean, this was before computerisation and all that sort of thing. I didn’t think He could press a few buttons and say, oh yes, Norman James Venture. Well, that’s his trouble. But of course I was dealing with God, wasn’t I? God knows everything about everyone. And so He immediately told me, just like that. And do you know, He was right.

Surprising, isn’t it? He was right. And I said, well as I asked and as I promised, I’ll follow it along and see what happens, but He was right. And as I followed it along, I was amazed to find how right He was.

And I was also amazed to find that nine-tenths of the problem was mine. It had been my attitude. It had been my way of living. It had been my breaking of the law. I broke the basic law. I hated my brother. And I hated my brother because he had the nerve to be five and a half years older than me. Because that wasn’t his fault, was it? But I hated it. I hated being the youngest and therefore, I had to hate the oldest. And in the end, the annoyance and the irritation so got hold of me that by the time I was ten years old, at certain times of the year, May, June and July, all I did was to sneeze all day and spend most of the time in a dark room.

But when I saw what it was all about, and I apologized to God and said, Oh, forgive me, forgive me, forgive me for breaking Your law and hating my brother, He said, Norman, I do forgive you. That’s what we sung about tonight. He bore it all on the cross, but it doesn’t work until I appropriate it. It doesn’t work until I say, What part I have had in my illness, I ask You to forgive me. I also said, My word, I brought it on myself, didn’t I? And if I have it forever, it’ll only be my fault. It’s my responsibility and it’s nothing less than I deserve. And He also said to me, You’re going to apologize to your brother, won’t you?

Two or three months, or no, about six or eight weeks later, I was down in London where my brother lived and I was staying with him and I sat one evening and at last I said, Gordon, I’ve got something to say to you. And I told him this story and as he listened, when I stopped, he said, Well, you were all that you said you were.

You were all that you said you were. An absolute beast. But I forgive you. I forgive you. But then he said, you know, listening to your story, I realized that I could have been so different too. Will you forgive me? And we were reconciled. We forgave one another. We were bound together in the love of God. You know, the hay fever didn’t like it at all.

The hay fever didn’t carry on because, of course, it’s got to be fueled. You’ve got to give it some push. And now the push was over. There was nothing fueling it. There was no irritation deep down inside me. Mine, it took a bit of time for young Norman, who lives inside me, to get the message. Took a bit of time for the computer to get changed. Took a bit of time for the rewriting of the message. I could do it quicker now because I know how to let Jesus do it quicker. But gradually, that hay fever season became less and less and less. And after about four years, I only had it for one day. One day, that’s not much, is it, after you’ve had it for three months. It was the 19th of June, right back in the middle of the summer.

His birthday. Think when I was seven and he was 12. And it was his birthday and everybody was saying, congratulations, Gordon, we’re so pleased. You’re 12, my word. And I was saying, I said, outwardly, of course, I was saying, oh, congratulations, happy birthday. Deep down, I was saying, he’s even older than I am now.

That’s where it all began. And until God put that right in me, until I let God put it right, I couldn’t be healed. You see, He starts on the inside. When that man was, oh, when it be thrilling when we see that when we get to heaven, you know, there’s Jesus in a house, much smaller than this, a flat roof up there, crowds in there listening to Him, right up so close, nobody could get in at the door, it was house full, notice was up. Nobody could get in. And as He went on preaching, suddenly, they start taking the tiling away. And blow me, look what happens. Down, down, down comes a sort of stretcher, like a kind of mattress, with four ropes or something at each corner. And he came and he was lowered right down in front of where Jesus was and everybody had to back up a bit to let him down. And there he was, a sick man lying there and looking down through the hole, four men who’d carried him there. Ha, ha, Jesus winked at them and said, you’re wrong. When He saw their face, He said to this fellow, your sins are forgiven you.

Wasn’t that a strange place to begin? But Jesus knew that’s where He got to begin. Where you have to begin is in your relationship with God. So He said, your sins are forgiven you. Of course, in those days, they believed you were only ill if you were a sinner. Lots of people are ill because of other people’s sin.

Lots of people are ill because of an accident. Lots of people are ill because of bad situations in which they live. Some people are ill through their own fault. But in those days, they believed everybody who was ill was being punished by God until Jesus came and said, oh, no, no, no, no, no. God doesn’t do that. Well, you know, if He did that, we’d all be ill, wouldn’t we? Ha. Everybody would be ill if God went around punishing sinners. Well, I can’t speak for you. I know I would be ill if God went around punishing sinners, I know I would be ill all the time. So that’s obviously rubbish. Jesus said it was rubbish. And if He and I agree about something, I really believe it. He said, your sins are forgiven you. And everybody said, who does He think He is? Forgiving sin. So Jesus said, you’re troubled about that, are you? Well, which is it easier to say? Your sins are forgiven or get up and walk out.

Now, isn’t it interesting? They didn’t believe that Jesus could forgive sin. Every Christian believes that now. We take that in our stride. I’m not preaching about that tonight because everybody, every Christian believes it. They all believe that He can forgive sin, but they don’t believe He can do anything about the paralysis. Do they? Isn’t it funny? Isn’t it funny how upside down we get things? And Jesus is still saying here tonight, you lot believe that I can forgive sin, don’t you? What if we say amen because we’ve all had our sin forgiven, haven’t we? If we’re believers. Now He says, do you believe that I can lift this man up?

He believed it. The four up there have believed it because that’s why they brought the man. I believe the man believed it. I don’t think he said, don’t you take me to that healer. I think he said, you take me to the healer. And he got these fellows to take him. I believe all of them believed it. The man on the bed thing, the four looking down, and Jesus. Nobody else did, but those four did. Those four, that one, and Jesus. And when you’ve got Jesus around, boy, you’ve got some power for your faith. Jesus said, yes, you hang on to me. I hang on just like that to Jesus. But that’s enough. There was a woman one day who just hung on to His coattail. Well, He didn’t have a coat like mine, but if He’d had a coat like mine, she said, if I can just get hold of that bit there, that’ll do it. She was right. That’s all you want. Just teeny-weeny little bit. Just get a hold. That’s enough. Because then you’re in contact with Jesus. And He’s in contact with God. And there you’ve got the power. See? And that woman got it. And that man got it. And Jesus took him by the hand and said, come on, fella.

Roll that thing up and take it out. Boy, there wasn’t a sound in the place, was there? He stood up. And for the first time, perhaps, in his life, he rolled up this thing he’d been lying on. Oh, boy. Fancy being able to use my arms and my legs. He rolled it up, put it under his arm. Now, how’s he going to get out?

There was no room to let him in. He couldn’t go out that way, could he? He said, see you round the front door. And they all got back and let him out. Scared out of their wits, they were. Because what they ought to have said is, what a man. Jesus. You must be Messiah. Wonderful. They didn’t say it. But He was. And He is. And the Messiah is the one who comes from God to give us the blessings and the helps. And as He did it then, so He can do it now.

As we’ve got so many children here tonight, I’m sharing it this way with you. And I’m sure you adults are picking up the message as I go along. I want to tell you about Marilyn. She was eight years old when she was a Sunday school kiddie in my church in Birmingham. A week on Sunday, I should be back there preaching in England. This little girl was eight years old. And she was taken to hospital ill. And the hospital she went into, the Children’s Hospital in Birmingham, she went on to a ward where the sister in charge was a member of our church, Sister Nancy Gold. It’s a lovely name, isn’t it? And Sister Nancy Gold telephoned me and she said, Marilyn has cancer of the stomach. And there is nothing medically can be done for her.

But Sister Nancy Gold was a believer in the healing power of God through Christ. And she said, I’m going to pray and I know you’re going to pray. I went down to the hospital and saw this lovely little girl lying in the bed, eight years of age. And then I went into the nurses, into the sister’s office and we prayed together. The sister and I. The nurse, you see. Because there’s no separation between the servants of God. You don’t have to say, shall I go to the doctor or shall I go to God? That’s absurd. The nurses and the doctors are all servants of God. It is God that heals. And He heals through many ways. And one of the most marvellous ways He heals is through His people in the medical profession. And I thank God for them all. But I back them up. I work with them. And that’s what chaplains do. We got some here tonight. And that’s what all of us ought always to do. You never need to fear about that. Keep on taking your medicine. Keep on doing what your doctor says. But at the same time, allow God to use every channel. And if by chance they can’t do anything, don’t give up. Well, that’s ridiculous, isn’t it?

They don’t want you to give up. They don’t give up. Even if they say, I can’t do anything, they still try. Well, they sent Marilyn home and her doctor was my doctor. And I went round to see her in her bed now at home. See, cancer of the stomach is one of the worst forms of cancer you can have. And then downstairs, I talked with her mother and father in the kitchen. They weren’t members of my church. They didn’t go to any church. They weren’t believers. They weren’t unbelievers. They were sort of neutral. Not that that’s much good, but still, it’s not as bad as being opposed, is it? I sat with them and I said, I’m very sorry about Marilyn. And they said, well, thank you. And then I said, what’s the situation? They said, the doctor says we can’t do anything for her except give her whatever she asks for. And she’s actually asked us for a new bicycle. And so we bought her a new bicycle. Of course, she’ll never ride it, but we bought it for her. And I said, well, you’re wonderful. That’s real love, isn’t it? To go out and buy a new bicycle for your daughter, you know she’ll never ride it, but, well, you’ve bought it for her.

Then I said to her, you’d love her so much, you’d do anything for her, wouldn’t you? They said, yes. But I said, of course, you can’t heal her, can you? They said, no. And the doctors can’t heal her? No. I said, well, I believe that God loves Marilyn even more than you do, because He is her heavenly Father. And although you love her wonderfully, He is greater than any of us. God loves my three daughters more than I love them. I’m not criticizing you, I’m just saying that God’s love is bigger and better than my love or your love. And they said, yes. I said, well, God also has the power to heal. And if you agreed, I’d like to ask Him to heal Marilyn.

And they said, please do. Now, you know, if I may say this in parenthesis, they’d never heard any of those sermons about the fact that Jesus used to do it but doesn’t do it now. That’s one advantage of being neutral. They simply took the simple logic of it. We love Marilyn, we would heal her if we could, we can’t. God loves Marilyn even more than we do, but God being God, He can. Therefore, we’ll ask Him. Quite simple, isn’t it? So there and there, sitting around the table, I asked Him. And I believed it. And they caught the belief from me and I caught it from Jesus. My belief was more than theirs. Jesus’ belief was much more than mine but I hung on. And He and the Abba could let their power come through and I saw in my mind a healed Marilyn. I saw the chaos of the cancer coming back into order. Because that’s all the cancer is. There’s a lot of cells got out of order. Producing more and more and more when you haven’t got room for them. And all you want to do is say, come on, get back, get back. That’s better. Oh, that’s lovely. Great. It’s like the chaos. Right at the beginning you want order out of it.

Oh, it’s like the storm and sea. Jesus says, hey, come down, come on, get back. That’s better. That’s better. That’s lovely. Fine. See? So I saw Him say to the cells in that little girl’s stomach, come on now, come on, There’s too many of you. Stop multiplying. Let’s have a bit of long division. Let’s get it back. Let’s get it back. Come on, So there’ll be nothing there that’s out of place. Well, then I went to my church. Great, lovely church. I taught them about the healing ministry of Jesus. I told them it could be done now. Some of them believed and many of them didn’t. But I said, those of you who do believe it, let’s pray for Marilyn. And you know, they longed for it to be true. Their faith wasn’t as big as mine. Some of their faith was. Sister Nancy Gold backed me up and that was good. Someone in the medical profession. And between us, we hung on to Jesus and Jesus did it.

Because when I went back some years later, there was a young girl at a meeting of young people. I was still young enough in those days to speak to young people. And I was asked to go and speak to the young people of Birmingham. And they wanted to take a photograph. And suddenly I saw in the crowd a girl I sort of half recognised. And she came up to me and she smiled and she said, you know who I am, don’t you? And I said, well, I think I ought to know who you are. Mine’s a long time since I was here. She said, I’m Marilyn. And now she’s married and has her own children.

Now you say, well, why don’t you tell us one of the stories where it didn’t happen? Well, I could do. Got plenty of those too. But the failure was not because God didn’t want to do it. The failure somewhere along the line was that we didn’t get all the right connections. And so when you fail, you learn again. When you fail, you go on again. You don’t sit back and say, oh well, sometimes God wants it and sometimes He doesn’t. So it’s heads you win and tails you don’t and all that sort of thing. You say, no, we’re going to go against this thing. We’re always against sin, aren’t we? Amen? Yeah. We must always be against disease. And if I knew that you were going to heaven tonight and you were ill, I would say God wants you to be healed now. Because He doesn’t use healing for death. We do, but He doesn’t. Maybe I can’t go into that tonight, but it’s absolutely true, I believe. The body is not made for disease, the body is made for wholeness. And you know, when I shared that with a lot of clever people, somebody said, well, how on earth are you going to die then? I said, healthily.

Well, we see that every autumn. What happens to the leaves on the trees in autumn? They come to the end of their life and they drop off. You don’t say, look at that tree. Autumn, you don’t know what the autumn is. Fall, in the fall. In the fall. You don’t say, look at that tree. It’s the fall and all the leaves have come off. You say, look at that tree. And don’t the leaves look beautiful right at the end? And now they’re falling. Well, that’s right. Good. But if you see a tree in the middle of August without any leaves on it, you say, what’s the matter with that tree? It’s dead. Or if you see the leaves falling off, you say they’re diseased. The normal thing is for leaves to fall off at the fall. So there is a proper time to die. Thank God. I don’t want to live here forever. Too many exciting things on. Beyond. But I want to live healthily while I’m here. And God wants me to live healthily while I’m here. To glorify His name as my Maker. And to use me in His service. So, we always look for healing.

Elsie? You meant to say God disease for death. And I said, oh, beg your pardon. You get this right on the tape now. What a blessing she is to me. After 38 years, she’s still listening. God doesn’t use disease for death. Got it right? I got it right. Thank you. Thank you, Elsie. God doesn’t use disease. He always wants to heal. So, He’s in the healing business. He’s in the forgiving business. He’s in the healing business. Now, you know, can I suggest to you, don’t start off with something as tough as leukemia or terminal cancer. I’ll willingly pray for you like that, but if you’re not in this business very much, start off next time you have a cold. Now, some of you have been doing that here. Of course, you can only get a cold if you get the bug. Nothing to do with drafty cabins, you know. You may think it is, but it isn’t. They learned that in England. They’ve had a cold centre for 30 years trying to discover what causes the common cold and how to cure it. They haven’t been able to discover it and they haven’t been able to cure it. But they do know what doesn’t cause it. Getting wet feet doesn’t cause it. Lying in a draft doesn’t cause it.

Lying in unaired beds doesn’t cause it. Lying in an A-frame cabin which is cold doesn’t cause it. You’ve got to have the bug. It’s a little bug. Mind you, if you’re cold and miserable, the bug likes that because he can get in more easily. That’s why it’s good to be joyful. Bugs can’t get in where there’s joy. Remember that fellow who laughed himself back to illness, to health.

Oh boy, you’re listening tonight. Here, I’d better leave tomorrow, I think. Laughed himself back to health. The doctor said, you’re going to die and he said, there’s a better way of dying than that. And he got Charlie Chaplin’s films and Buster Keaton and all the ones he could and he set them up in his hotel. He moved out of the hospital, went in the hotel, put up the films and laughed himself back to health. He’s written a book. It’s on the book table here, I think. The Anatomy of Healing. The Anatomy of Illness. And it was written up in Reader’s Digest. See, joy overcomes it. Now, if I get miserable and down and depressed and overtired and they put me in an A-frame and it’s cold, then the little cold bug says, ha-ha, here’s a nice fella. I can get in here while he’s not looking and he’ll give you a cold. But it’s got to have the bug. Now, when you get the bug next time, say to yourself, Jesus, is there anything You can do about a cold bug? Well, now, if Jesus can’t do anything about a cold bug, He’s not much of a Saviour, is He? I mean, a cold bug isn’t much. And you’re not afraid anyhow, are you? If He can’t do anything, well, he’ll only have the cold six days.

So fear doesn’t enter into it. But why not say, Jesus, I’d like to ask You to help me. I would like to realise that Your Holy Spirit is in me and Your Holy Spirit is healthier than anything else and stronger than anything else. And I can search out where the bug is and just say to it, hop it. You’ve got no place here. This is one of my beloved ones. Get off. And you believe it. And you’ll be thankful. I’ll teach you. I’ll be thankful. I’ll teach you. Be thankful. Don’t worry about the symptoms. Keep saying, Jesus, I know You’re looking after it. Keep at it. And you’ll find that your colds gradually get shorter and shorter. And in fact, then you’ll get to the place where as soon as you feel that little bit of symptom, you’ll be able to call in the great power of God in Christ by the indwelling of the Spirit and you’ll be healed. Now that’s what we’re talking about. Many, many other things, but that’s basically what we’re talking about. And if you come forward for healing tonight, then you’ve got to be sure that deep down inside you, you want it. Deep down, you’ve got to be honest. Really honest. That you’re not using the illness for anything at all.

Either for company, for sympathy, or to get out of something, or to get out of life. However old you are, you’ve got to ask yourself that. Then you’ve got to come clean about any bad relationship you have with God or with other people. If you’ve got anything like that, you’ve got to ask for forgiveness. You’ve got to get it cleaned up. Any resentment, bitterness, anger, jealousy, envy, irritation, whatever. You’ve got to offer that up and say, I’m sorry. Because after all, that’s more important than your illness. And then you can say, now Lord, here I am. I know You love me and I know You want to heal me. And when those hands are touching me tonight, I’m not going to think of who they are, because they’re nobody, whether they’re Rachel or Norman, whoever else. But I’m going to imagine they’re Your hands, Jesus. And they are Your hands because You’re going to use these hands. And I’m going to believe that the wonderful power of Your Father is going to flow into me and search out wherever there’s any dis-ease and make it ease. And I’m going to find and believe in that healing. I’m going to claim it and believe it and thank You for it. And expect that it’s going to happen.

And I praise Your name. And I know that’s what You want because You are a loving Father. And I want You to be glorified and Your name to be honoured. See, it’s all quite simple, really. If we will believe Jesus, who is here with us, there’s nothing He cannot do. Nothing. He and His Father are God. God. So any illness is less than that. Thanks be to God. So the simple way we’re going to do this tonight, Rachel and as my co-speaker and the ministers who are here tonight, not because we are any important, but simply because we’ve got to choose some. We could have chosen people from the Council Ring just as easily. There’s some of them on the Council Ring. See beyond the human agents. They’re going to come out now into groups of twos. if they would do that. And we’ll start moving them around here a little.

No, we won’t have chairs tonight because there aren’t any. So you’re going to help, Barbara, are you? She’s going to play. She’s going to play. Oh, that’s right. Right. Tom, isn’t it? Dave. Dave. Would you go with Jim? Fine. Fine. And… Have we got any more ministers?

We’ve got another minister there? Great. That’s fine. Would you two go together? Whoops. And would you two go together? And Elsie, will you come out as well? Fine. Now, we’ve got enough pairs for people to be able to come. Doesn’t matter who you come to. When you come, very quietly, tell the couple, if you’ll just hold the piano for a minute, just tell the couple if you want to, in a word or a sentence, what you want. If you don’t feel you need that, then don’t tell them. They don’t really need to know, but if you want to tell them, you tell them. Then one of the two will pray. Both of them will lay their hands on you. Tonight, we’re just inviting people who need healing for themselves. I know there are other times when you can come on behalf of somebody else, but not tonight. Tonight, you come, if you need it, for yourself. And you come in faith, and you go to any one of these couples, and we’ll spread ourselves out as far as we can. If you’ll be right over that side, and if you, Rachel, and your partner will go up there, that’s right. And Elsie and I will come here, and those two over there. And come to any of the couples.